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Home » support » Symfony 2.0 » Should I start a new project in 1.4 or 2.0?
Should I start a new project in 1.4 or 2.0? [message #101663] Sun, 27 June 2010 04:19 Go to next message
SomeDude  is currently offline SomeDude
Messages: 32
Registered: February 2008
Member
Should I start a new project in 1.4 or 2.0?

I would like to weigh in the pros and cons of starting a project in 2.0. How likely are things to change significantly from today to the point of release, forcing me to re-factor my code?

Your thoughts are appreciated.
Re: Should I start a new project in 1.4 or 2.0? [message #101667 is a reply to message #101663 ] Sun, 27 June 2010 10:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Emacs  is currently offline Emacs
Messages: 201
Registered: December 2007
Location: Paris - Clichy
Faithful Member
Hi !

Do not use Symfony2 now for production use for lots of reasons:

* Symfony2 is not finished yet (no form integration for example...)
* Symfony2 is not documented
* Symfony2 runs on PHP 5.3.2 and few production servers support PHP 5.3 for now
* There is no community around Symfony2
* There is no training around Symfony2
* There is no commercial offers arount Symfony2
* There is no plugin (bundles in fact) for Symfony2

To sum up, the Symfony2's ecosystem is not ready ! So, if you start a project now, you will have lots of troubles to make it due to the lack of documentation and developpers on the market.

Symfony2 will change from now to its release date, so don't use it !

Symfony 1.4 is mature, well documented and there are lots of developers and plugins. So, you won't be alone when developing with symfony 1.4.

Hugo HAMON
Sensio Labs Trainings Manager
Re: Should I start a new project in 1.4 or 2.0? [message #101676 is a reply to message #101667 ] Sun, 27 June 2010 19:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SomeDude  is currently offline SomeDude
Messages: 32
Registered: February 2008
Member
Thank you very much for advice.
Re: Should I start a new project in 1.4 or 2.0? [message #101917 is a reply to message #101663 ] Fri, 02 July 2010 17:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tom_m
Messages: 3
Registered: July 2010
Location: NYC/SFO
Junior Member
...yea...but symfony 1.4 is old and bad. Why use it?
2.0 is sooo much faster and PHP 5.3 is exactly where you want to be. Think of it this way...If you're building a project and it takes you a few months, where will Symfony 2.0 be by then? How many blog posts and articles and such will there be?

Plus...Classes are classes are classes. You can typically adapt other people's code to work for you.

I think especially if you're going to be coding an entire app from scratch without trying to pull in all sorts of plugins, you're fine.

There's always bug fixes and patches for even "stable" releases of software. So there's no reason not to use "beta" or "alpha" software. Look at Gmail, it was "beta" for years, right?

Furthermore...Let's say you did grab 2.0 and use it as it today. You have your site up and working. So it works. Now what? Who says you have to go and blindly upgrade? Leave the thing as is. It's the same argument for "using 1.4 and never upgrading because if it isn't broke why fix it?" Of course you can also just keep with the updates and update on a development environment.

Bottom line. It's PHP, it's open source code. If you want to use it. USE IT. There's never a guarantee in ANYTHING, just a small tip. You think you have guarantees when you use Wordpress or Drupal? Or even Symfony 1.4? Nope. It's funny how much confidence people have when they read text on a web site that says "it's stable and it's fast and it's great."

Worst case scenario, you keep with the updates and you learn the progression of the framework and gain a better understanding of it and you have a broken site (under a development server or locally) when you do upgrade and you actually learn something by fixing the bugs.

God forbid we learn anything...We just want to drop something in, download some plugins and have a site. No, if you're a programmer and you know what you're doing. Use what you want.
Re: Should I start a new project in 1.4 or 2.0? [message #101918 is a reply to message #101917 ] Fri, 02 July 2010 17:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Emacs  is currently offline Emacs
Messages: 201
Registered: December 2007
Location: Paris - Clichy
Faithful Member
Quote:

...yea...but symfony 1.4 is old and bad. Why use it?


Symfony 1.4 is not old and it's not bad ! Symfony 1.4 was released in november 2009 so it's still convenient nowadays.

Quote:

2.0 is sooo much faster and PHP 5.3 is exactly where you want to be. Think of it this way...If you're building a project and it takes you a few months, where will Symfony 2.0 be by then? How many blog posts and articles and such will there be?


When Symfony2 will be released, you will have lots of problems to find :

* Good PHP 5.3 developpers
* Official documentation and non official documentation
* Commercial support
* Plugins / Bundles
* ...

Symfony2 is not stable enough yet! It's not ready for production use!


PHP 5 / symfony webdevelopper at Sensio
Webmaster of http://www.apprendre-php.com (fr)
Co-author of "Bien Développer en PHP avec Symfony et Doctrine"
Re: Should I start a new project in 1.4 or 2.0? [message #101920 is a reply to message #101918 ] Fri, 02 July 2010 17:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tom_m
Messages: 3
Registered: July 2010
Location: NYC/SFO
Junior Member
Ok most people's definition of "old" is different =)
I just think that PHP developers should be taking advantage of PHP 5.3 IMMEDIATELY as in right now. There's no reason not to. I know many shared hosts won't have 5.3 just yet, but there's two different arenas here...

There's those who just use Drupal and Wordpress and even some who decide to use frameworks but just pop in plugins and don't really do much development (or really what I mean is understand much).

Then there's those who can fend for themselves and setup their own servers and configure them and like the latest and greatest.

...Besides worst case scenario, I'll just drop Lithium inside Symfony 2.0 if there's any problems Laughing
Re: Should I start a new project in 1.4 or 2.0? [message #101934 is a reply to message #101920 ] Fri, 02 July 2010 23:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
xplo  is currently offline xplo
Messages: 428
Registered: September 2008
Faithful Member
haha, that s what you get for publishing crazy benchmark of Symfony2 Smile
Re: Should I start a new project in 1.4 or 2.0? [message #101938 is a reply to message #101934 ] Sat, 03 July 2010 04:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tom_m
Messages: 3
Registered: July 2010
Location: NYC/SFO
Junior Member
well, they were benchmarks under optimal conditions. it's not just the benchmarks that i personally like about symfony2, its really how it's setup and the direction and the php 5.3... speed isn't everything trust me.
Re: Should I start a new project in 1.4 or 2.0? [message #101955 is a reply to message #101663 ] Sat, 03 July 2010 17:59 Go to previous message
halfer  is currently offline halfer
Messages: 9535
Registered: January 2006
Location: West Midlands, UK
Faithful Member
It's ok to use Symfony 2 alpha immediately in production, but only if you are willing to fix your code after the stable version is released. You can lock yourself into the alpha version if you like, but that wouldn't be a great idea if the alpha is found to have a security flaw.

Where development time is a free resource (e.g. on a personal website) then go live on the alpha, sure. But where it is expensive (businesses that hire/employ programmers) I can't recommend it.

Symfony 1.4 will run on PHP 5.3 already.


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