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Home » support » Symfony 2.0 » Symfony 1.4 to Symfony 2.0
Symfony 1.4 to Symfony 2.0 [message #95128] Tue, 09 March 2010 20:23 Go to next message
petersaints  is currently offline petersaints
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As far as I know Symfony 1.4 will be the final release on the 1.x series. I'm starting a project that needs to go into production so obviously I'll use 1.4 instead of 2.0 (that is currently in Alpha stage).

My question is: Once 2.0 gets released will it be possible to migrate/upgrade from a 1.4 project do 2.0? If so... how difficult would it be? Yeah I know that 1.4 is a LTS version but I will eventually want to update way before its EOL to avoid problems and I would like to do so without having do rewrite the whole application.

[Updated on: Tue, 09 March 2010 20:34]

Re: Symfony 1.4 to Symfony 2.0 [message #95136 is a reply to message #95128 ] Tue, 09 March 2010 22:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lucasaba  is currently offline lucasaba
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For what I've seen, I don't think it will be possible.

If you follow the 10(*4) minutes tutorial of Symfony 2 you'll see how different it is.
Re: Symfony 1.4 to Symfony 2.0 [message #95138 is a reply to message #95136 ] Tue, 09 March 2010 23:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
petersaints  is currently offline petersaints
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Exactly. I took a look at Symfony 2.0 architecture and it look quite different in some aspects. However I have hope that developers will take care of giving us a migration tool to ease the upgrade. If not so it's pretty bad (even considering 1.4 LTS status) that we would have to write all 1.x applications from scratch just to continue to give support and updates to them.

I mean this is a major issue. I'm not a very experienced developer and I don't know how does kind of thing uses to be managed but I think it's worth to think and do something about it.

I decided to choose Symfony to start my new project (I also considered Zend Framework and CakePHP) but this might be a major issue later on (the same goes for documentation that I hope doesn't magically disappear after 2.0 release).

Zend Framework is also aiming for a 2.0 release that will aparently change a lot of things ( http://framework.zend.com/wiki/display/ZFDEV2/Zend+Framework +2.0+Roadmap). I'm not sure for when it is scheduled, but I wonder if they will also present this issues to migrate from 1.x projects do 2.x?

I'm just worried that's all. Symfony 1.4 is amazing and I really I'm anxious to use 2.0 (but being in alpha stage and not being fully documented makes it useless for this project and for learning as I'm now) however I'd really wold like to have the warranty that what I code now can be reused later on to continue to improve the application for as long as needed without the need to start from scratch.
Re: Symfony 1.4 to Symfony 2.0 [message #95160 is a reply to message #95138 ] Wed, 10 March 2010 10:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
romain_godefroy  is currently offline romain_godefroy
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As it has been explain in blog posts like
http://www.symfony-project.org/blog/2009/10/27/why-will-symf ony-2-0-finally-use-php-5-3
and at the sfLive2010, Symfony 2 break the backward compatibility

As Symfony 2.0 is about breaking backward compatibility anyway, the Symfony core team thinks that it is better to break backward compatibility once and for all and avoid yet another major compatibility break in coming years in order to finally support PHP 5.3.

The goals are great new concepts, flexibility, performance, ...

So you should be confident in developping your application on sf1.4 as the LTS means your project can stay stable for years.

Anyway I can understand you as I'm in the same position today starting new project in 1.4 and can't stand waitting for Symfony 2... even if 1.4 is still (and forever) a great framework.

Re: Symfony 1.4 to Symfony 2.0 [message #95161 is a reply to message #95128 ] Wed, 10 March 2010 10:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
halfer  is currently offline halfer
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I think I have read a few times instances of people wanting to upgrade for the sake of it, and I think the same is happening here. We're still on 1.0, and given that it is likely the security bugs have been shaken out of it, the only real risk we run is that "skills move on" and no-one can develop for 1.0 any more. However, I am recently of the mind that good PHP programmers can learn an "old" framework, and in any case that we're using a framework at all puts us ahead of many "roll your own" developers.

Accordingly, if you are on 1.4, that is supported for three years anyway, and even when it is superceded you really should look at the business case for upgrading. It may not be necessary. For freelance developers, this is not something they would do unless the client was paying for it, and ordinary businesses should take the same perspective. Skills for 1.4 are not about to disappear in the next five years, IMO.

That all said, it is interesting to develop a strategy to upgrade. I am considering writing new modules for our system in 1.3, sharing the ORM system between the two system halves, and using mod_rewrite to bring the old/new system into the URI space depending on regexp matching. Perhaps that would help?


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Re: Symfony 1.4 to Symfony 2.0 [message #97526 is a reply to message #95128 ] Sat, 17 April 2010 13:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
vibarco  is currently offline vibarco
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I don't know what fabien pretends giving no backward compatibility, too hard to feel confident developing with symfony, every one o two years another version out, starting lerning everything again.

Cheers,
Vince.

[Updated on: Sat, 17 April 2010 13:56]

Re: Symfony 1.4 to Symfony 2.0 [message #98833 is a reply to message #95128 ] Tue, 11 May 2010 04:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
east3rd  is currently offline east3rd
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Yep, I've got some serious concerns about this as well. I know it's still early yet, but in reading through the documentation, it appears as though 2.0 shares very little in common syntactically with 1.4. Everything is completely different, and IMO it would be impossible to build an "upgrade" tool. My fear is that this move will only alienate developers. I can't imagine other frameworks like Rails or Django going through a such a drastic change.
Re: Symfony 1.4 to Symfony 2.0 [message #98892 is a reply to message #98833 ] Tue, 11 May 2010 19:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hopscotch1978  is currently offline hopscotch1978
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I think halfer's right... there's got to be some reason to upgrade to 2.0. If you've got a site working in 1.4 without trouble, why upgrade?

Personally, the only potential worry I can see is having to work with sites on both 1.4 and 2.0 and starting to forget what's what.

And having looked at the 2.0 tutorials quickly, I dont think the learning curve will be that bad if you're already comfortable with previous versions of symfony.


Re: Symfony 1.4 to Symfony 2.0 [message #99055 is a reply to message #97526 ] Fri, 14 May 2010 12:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stormsson  is currently offline stormsson
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actually older version are mantained for a long time after a new one is out: 1.4 will be mantained for a lot of time.

I don't see the problem: if you are paid to mantain a web-project for 3 years from now you'll be sure that the version you are using will still be mantained.

If your project must least longer, you'll be sure to have your last update at 3 years from now, so you WILL be using a platform WITH backward compatibility.

If you develop with something with a version older than 3 years well.. it's not very updated, i'd say...

1.4 works very good at the moment, 2.0 isn't out, so why bother yourself ?

Don't forget that 1.4 has a lot of plugins that expand the symfony base project capabilities, when 2.0 will be out there will be a lot of time before all we were used to do will be available for that version.
Re: Symfony 1.4 to Symfony 2.0 [message #99085 is a reply to message #98892 ] Fri, 14 May 2010 19:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
east3rd  is currently offline east3rd
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I disagree that in your statement that the learning curve won't be "that bad". It took me awhile to adjust from 1.0 to 1.4, and those two versions shared much of the same syntax. Jumping from 1.4 to 2.0 would be akin to learning a different framework, like Cake, CodeIgniter, etc... Sure, conceptually they share a lot in common, but the syntax and directory structure are all (apparently to me) completely different.
Re: Symfony 1.4 to Symfony 2.0 [message #99095 is a reply to message #95128 ] Fri, 14 May 2010 19:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
halfer  is currently offline halfer
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You could just stick to 1.4, east3rd?


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Re: Symfony 1.4 to Symfony 2.0 [message #99099 is a reply to message #99095 ] Fri, 14 May 2010 19:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
east3rd  is currently offline east3rd
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Well, sure I can, and I'm quite happy with 1.4. That's not the point. I'm not worried about me-- I'm worried about the framework, and the potential for developer alienation that 2.0 could potentially introduce.

When 2.0 goes live, I (along with many other Symfony developers) am going to take a really good look at several other frameworks that I haven't considered adopting because of the learning curve involved in moving away from Symfony. I'll be doing this because adopting 2.0 will likely have a similar learning curve. From my standpoint as a developer, it's fantastic to keep my options open and learn other frameworks, and 2.0 will encourage that. But, from the standpoint of a framework which depends so much on its developer community, this is not necessarily a good thing.
Re: Symfony 1.4 to Symfony 2.0 [message #99100 is a reply to message #99099 ] Fri, 14 May 2010 20:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hopscotch1978  is currently offline hopscotch1978
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Personally, I think if 2.0 is what it looks like it will be, it's just going to get more developers interested in Symfony. 1.4 is already quite a pleasure to develop with.

With the learning curve I meant that Symfony would already be familiar, the general structure, etc, so the learning would be mainly about syntax.... which shouldn't be that bad.

I like the fact that there's already some documentation / tutorials for 2.0 even if it the release is so far away. And I get the feeling all the documentation will be revamped properly for 2.0.

And most of all, I like the fact that as I've invested time in learning Symfony 1.4, I know that the framework is going forward, and I don't feel the need to be looking to other frameworks right now because Symfony itself continues to improve. If Symfony lagged behind while other frameworks got better, the situation would be different.
Re: Symfony 1.4 to Symfony 2.0 [message #99105 is a reply to message #99100 ] Fri, 14 May 2010 22:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stormsson  is currently offline stormsson
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in software development i think the syntax is one of the smaller problems for a developer =P

If you know mvc pattern,if you know how symfony 1.4 works , you surely are skilled enough to learn Sf2 in a very small time period.

Obviously as in every new experience, big things do not come in a few days, but as a programmer i'm not very much troubled about the syntax or some label changing.

Mind one thing as a starting point: it's a framework that needs to be powerful and easy, if it wasn't it would be worse than 1.4 ,so it wouldn't be a progress.

I personally trust them, and anyway cinically :if i'm wrong, i'll still be able to develop in 1.4 for at least 3 more years....
Re: Symfony 1.4 to Symfony 2.0 [message #99206 is a reply to message #95128 ] Mon, 17 May 2010 15:37 Go to previous message
halfer  is currently offline halfer
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@east3rd, I see what you mean. However I'd be inclined to think the forms system would be similar - thought I've no special knowledge on this - and I think the general approach, coming as it is from the same core devs - will not be as different as switching to Zend or Cake.

But my understanding is that Zend and Cake et al are very good pieces of work, and it doesn't hurt to see what they have to offer from time to time. I mean to, but as ever it is a question of available time Rolling Eyes


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